Monday, July 6, 2015

A debate between Christian Chin and Asar on Quran is not true


Salam,
 
Below is the debate between Christian Chin and Asar on the Christian view that the Quran is not from God as it has many contradictions.
 
The Debate
 
Christian Chin said If the Quran is true, then Islam is false. Why? Because the Quran says to trust the Gospels, but the four Gospels contradict the Quran. This means the Quran can't be true if it says the gospel message is also true. In order to show this, I will quote several verses from the Quran. The more important ones are bolded for easy reference later. None can change Allah's words 6:34, 6:115, 18:27,
 
Asar replied the Quran never says without reservation that Gospels is true. The Gospel is true if you accept the Quran but you did not, here is an example: And when there came to them a messenger from Allah, confirming what was with them, a party of the people of the Book threw away the Book of Allah behind their backs, as if (it had been something) they did not know! (2:101)
 
 
Christian Chin said Moses was given the Torah 2:87, "We gave Moses the Book and followed him up with a succession of messengers; We gave Jesus the son of Mary Clear (Signs) and strengthened him with the holy spirit. Is it that whenever there comes to you a messenger with what ye yourselves desire not, ye are puffed up with pride? Some ye called impostors, and others ye slay!
 
Asar replied here again you rejected the Messenger Muhammad (Pbuh) whom you called an imposter and he brought message which you reject. How can you say the Quran says to trust the Gospel?
 
 
Christian Chin quoted the Quran  3:3, "It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong)."  4:163, "We have sent thee inspiration, as We sent it to Noah and the Messengers after him: we sent inspiration to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes, to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and Solomon, and to David We gave the Psalms." 57:27, "Then, in their wake, We followed them up with (others of) Our messengers: We sent after them Jesus the son of Mary, and bestowed on him the Gospel; and We ordained in the hearts of those who followed him Compassion and Mercy. But the Monasticism which they invented for themselves, We did not prescribe for them: (We commanded) only the seeking for the Good Pleasure of Allah; but that they did not foster as they should have done. Yet We bestowed, on those among them who believed, their (due) reward, but many of them are rebellious transgressors.
 
Asar replied look at the ending part of the verse “you did not foster” meaning most of you never nurture or cherish and many of you are rebellious transgressors. And you have the cheek to say the Qurans says to trust the Gospel and this is what you did before and now: Ye People of the Book! Why reject ye the Signs of Allah, of which ye are (Yourselves) witnesses? Ye People of the Book! Why do ye clothe Truth with falsehood, and conceal the Truth, while ye have knowledge? (3:70-71)
 
 
Christian Chin The Quran said Christians should judge by what is in the Gospel
5:47, "Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel." The Quran confirms the Torah, the Psalms, and the Gospels and guards them 5:48 To thee [the people of the gospel] We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute.
 
Asar replied The Quran at 5:48 …, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety.  Guarding it in safety means the Quran act as a quality control over previous scriptures it detects and exposes the Christian falsehood. Here is an inaccurate example of moral justice:
 
And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also. (Luke 6:29). Nobody in their minds will follow your Bible Clement Chin. This is what should be the truth in your book as stated in the Quran: We ordained therein for them: "Life for life, eye for eye, nose or nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth, and wounds equal for equal." But if any one remits the retaliation by way of charity, it is an act of atonement for himself. And if any fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (No better than) wrong-doers. (5:45)
 
 
Christian Chin said the Quran command the Muslims to ask Christians about spiritual things as stated: 10.94, "If thou wert in doubt as to what We have revealed unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee: the Truth hath indeed come to thee from thy Lord: so be in no wise of those in doubt."
 
Asar replied you see your brain is only concentrating on the phrase “then ask those who have been reading the Book before thee” but I am looking the bigger phrase of the verse “If thou were in doubt as to what We revealed unto thee (for Muslims no harm in asking those people of the Book just to check but but) the Truth hath indeed come to thee from thy Lord: (The Quran) so be in no wise of those in doubt.! This is what the verse really meant not to doubt the Quran it is the only Truth. There is actually no need to ask the people of the Book
 
 
Christian Chin quoted verse of Quran: Curse on those who say God has a son 9:30, "The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!
 
Asar replied this is true there is consequences in saying falsehood: They say: "Allah hath begotten a son!" - Glory be to Him! He is self-sufficient! His are all things in the heavens and on earth! No warrant have ye for this! Say ye about Allah what ye know not? Say: "Those who invent a lie against Allah will never prosper." A little enjoyment in this world! and then, to Us will be their return, then shall We make them taste the severest penalty for their blasphemies. (10:68-70)
Allah says not to associate Him with any sons or daughters.
 
 
Christian Chin said the Quran says Jesus was not crucified 4:157, "That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah"; but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not." Alright, so we see that...None can change Allah's words (6:34; 6:115; 18:27); Jesus was given the gospel by Allah (57:27); The Quran confirms the Gospels (5:48) The Gospels contradict the Quran
 
So, if the Quran confirms the Gospels which say that Jesus was crucified (Matthew 27:26–31; Mark 15:15–20; Luke 23:32–34; John 19:17-18), and the Quran says Jesus was not crucified (Surah 4:157), then the Quran is false. But if it says the Gospels are false, then the Quran denies its own teaching and Islam is false.
 
Asar replied remember the Quran is guardian over previous scriptures it functions to expose those falsehoods in the Bible: confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety.(5:48). Guarding it in safety means the Quran act as a quality control over previous scriptures it detects and exposes the falsehood. And it says: Verily this Qur'an doth explain to the Children of Israel most of the matters in which they disagree.(27:76)
 
 
Christian Chin Objection: The gospel is not the written record, but the message that Jesus gave. This can't work because the Quran confirms the Torah, the Psalms, and the gospels (written records) that were around at the time of Muhammad. Surah 5:48 To thee [the people of the gospel] We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety.
 
Asar replied it makes no different to me you can being me any Bible whether it is the King James Version or Catholic Good News or Jehovah’s Witness New world translation of the Holy scriptures or any other Bible irrespective whether it is the one during the Prophet or the new version when you claimed it is your scripture then the Quran will fulfill its function to be “the Guardian over previous scriptures” The Quran detect and expose falsehoods and fabrications. Remember the word “guardian” in 5:48 has a huge function
 
 
Asar


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